Charlie
Stella, The Godfather of Mob Fiction, has taken on a new challenge:
non-fiction. Charlie has helped James Guiliani write his memoir, Dogfella,
the story of how an abandoned dog changed Guiliani’s life from Mob enforcer to
animal rights advocate and obsessive protector of dogs. Yes, I know. That’s a
story too syrupy even for Disney to tell, but it’s true. How can this be? I’ll
let Charlie tell you, in his own inimitable words. (Double thanks to Charlie
for taking time away from his beloved Tampa Bay Lightning to sit for this
interview. GO BOLTS!!)
One Bite at a Time: Dogfella
is a departure for you. Not only is it non-fiction, it’s told from the main
character’s point of view as a memoir. Before we get into more about that, give
us a brief overview of what the book covers.
Charlie Stella: James “Head” Guiliani’s wild and
crazy life; from his earliest memories to the present day. I thought I lived a
few lives … James has me beat by a country mile.
OBAAT: How did you hook up with James?
(And, since someone is sure to ask, is he any relation to Rudy, though I’ll
understand if James is reluctant to acknowledge any blood ties.)
CS: The project came as a surprise through the SNHU MFA
program I graduated from. Apparently, my agent for the book, Jeff Kleinman (Folio
Literary Management) was also connected to the program through Diane Les
Becquets (the director of the program at the time). He was at our senior
readings and he heard my ability to curse every other word on a page … and he
had an in-house project through their London office (the agent representing
James) … I was contacted by him a few weeks later. He asked me to submit a few
writing samples and James liked the cut of my jib (as expressed in street
dialogue). We speak the same language, James and I. The Rudy thing … Big
smile. That’s actually covered at one
point in the memoir … but, NO, no connection to the psychotic lunatic who loved
his country so much, he ducked serving in Vietnam at every single opportunity so
he could become the mayor made famous by hiring a future convict as his police
commissioner. Fuck Rudy Giuliani. Take notice of the spelling. The good
Guiliani, James, he rescues animals 24/7. Rudy, who I once supported back in my
angst with the Democratic Party, has proved himself an irrelevant windbag. And
James’s brothers, all of them, served in the military (Army and Marines), so
fuck Rudy Guiliani again. (Editor’s Note: Such an elementary error would
normally result in the sacking of the interviewer. However, since said
interviewer is also the editor and publisher of this blog, we will settle for a
harsh reprimand.)
OBAAT: How long did you work with James on
the book?
CS: Wow. In the end it took us more than a year but not
because we weren’t working. There was the publishing buyout, then the
non-buyout, etc. We’d start and have to stop and then start again … in actual
time, probably six months, although it took me a bit longer to polish it. I’d
go to James’s store, The Diamond Collar, with a bag of bagels or box of donuts
and we’d work a few hours at a time. I went to his house and interviewed his
lady, Lena … they really do have a ton of animals there they’ve recued. It’s no
bullshit about how much those two do for animals.
OBAAT: In what ways is James like, and
unlike, you?
CS: The physical traits are obvious. We’re both tall, thin
and handsome MF’ers … okay, scratch that. We both played in similar puddles,
although his were a lot more high profile. James was with the Gotti Jr. crew
out of the now infamous Our Friends Social Club in Queens (literally around the
corner from the Bergen Hunt and Fish Club, John Gotti Sr.’s hangout), although
one was business and the other used more for entertainment. We both can read
people pretty quick (that’s a street thing you kind of learn subconsciously, I
think). We both still have street chips on our shoulders, but mine has been
somewhat calmed over time. James still has his, but he’s eleven years younger
than me. Time may wear him down some. His dedication to animals is very real. I
love my dog, don’t get me wrong, but I could never do what James has dedicated
his life to do. It’s no bullshit about the time and effort (and money) involved
in animal rescue. James does it 24/7 … no breaks ever. As far as different,
we’re pretty much politically polar opposites (which proves people with
different views of the world can co-exist, right?). James is a very religious
guy. I’m a devout atheist. Of course we’re both fashionistas, but I have to
admit his outfits probably look better than mine. (Unless I’m wearing my Bolts
stuff … then, forgetaboutit, I’m a fuckin’ stud.)
OBAAT: Everyone would have dismissed this
as a fictional story idea: mobster rescues abandoned, dying dog and changes his
life. You’ve come to know James pretty well. What happened there?
CS: I’d call bullshit on a story about a gangster finding an
abused abandoned dog and how it leads to animal rescue too, except I’ve seen
James tear up at the mention of Bruno (the dog he and his lady found). There’s
also a lot more to the story, including his addictions to alcohol and drugs, a
two-year bid in an infamous Long Island prison (Riverhead) and just how much
his lady, Lena, meant to his life. I know first-hand what a woman can do for a
man. I was engaged in a pretty shitty life myself until I met Ann Marie. That
redemption stuff really does happen.
OBAAT: How did Dogfella come to be published?
CS: I think James had a ton of exposure with the reality
show that was featured on the Oprah channel. He’s become a genuine celebrity in
New York and it made sense for a smart agent/agency to jump on the opportunity
for a book deal. James was getting press long before the Oprah show. He’d been
featured in New York newspapers a few times as well, including a great headline
of James’ dog, Primo (a 140 pound Cane Corso), and former Governor Spitzer,
with a headline that read: Which Dog has
Fleas? You gotta love it. James also helped retrieve bodies from the towers
after they were attacked. He was working construction close to Ground Zero and
he spent a night helping the steel workers retrieve corpses.
OBAAT: Americans whose knowledge of organized
crime is only as detailed as watching the Godfather films and The Sopranos may wonder how it was James
was able to walk away and start a new life. Was he a made guy? In today’s
mafia, would that have made a difference?
CS: James was what is considered a mob enforcer, someone you
send to do the dirty work. (Not to be confused with a hit man—he wasn’t that.)
He was also involved with his street gang, 112 (in Richmond Hill). The funny
thing is, for a brief period after my first divorce, I lived not too far from
where James was hanging out in Gotti Jr.’s joint. I lived in Richmond Hill with
a bunch of other window cleaners (what I was doing while learning the street
ropes after my first divorce). Enforcers can walk away or be excommunicated, so
to speak, for any number of things. In James case, he tried to pull a
potentially profitable job without letting the people he was around know about
it. He was pinched and went away for two years, which probably kept him from
catching a beating. Associates are earners, both legitimate and illegal, so
walking away usually has to do with finances and whether or not you’re looking
to pull money away from those you’re around. For James, it was both that
hijacking job that he kept to himself and his inability to stay away from
drugs. Going away was probably a blessing in disguise, because by the time he
came out, the Gotti crew had suffered Senior’s demise and they had bigger
problems to concern themselves with. For me it was much easier to walk. I left
my loansharking and bookmaking behind. I went from having a very healthy cash
income to being a working stiff (although I’d always been a working stiff,
taking breaks from time to time to try and be a writer). It was probably a
smart play on my part to always keep up with the computer world and having a
work resume. Some of it was pure bullshit (my resume), don’t get me wrong, but
not the jobs, just the gaps in years when I was working exclusively on the
street. Now, here’s another amazing thing that connects James and myself … Dr.
Salvatore Pernice … he also played (and continues to play) a big role in James’s
animal rescue, but long before I met James, Dr. Pernice saved Rigoletto (our
dog) … what are the odds?
OBAAT: Has there been any interest from the movies? I
know I just made fun of it as a fiction idea, but as a true story it’s
fascinating.
CS: I sure hope so. I think James has been contacted a few
times now. Although Oprah canceled the show after putting it on an impossible
to survive spot, the show now airs via Animal Planet in several countries (for
which James doesn’t get a dime—go figure).
OBAAT: Now that you mention it, what was the
deal with the TV show? Oprah Winfrey Network had it on for about twenty minutes
before cancelling. (I’m no TV executive, but I have to believe “finding an
audience” takes more than two or three episodes. It’s not like production costs
were going to break Oprah.) What happened there?
CS: See above. They put it on a Friday night
at 10:00 p.m. on a station that caters to a specific audience. Most of those
who watched it, seemed to like it fine, but numbers rule the roost and without
the push, there’s no way to survive. I don’t know how it wasn’t picked up, but
it still may be. Time will tell.
OBAAT: You’re well-established as the
Godfather of crime fiction. A couple of years ago, you attended the MFA program
at Southern New Hampshire University. How did that affect your outlook on both
reading and writing?
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Listen to me... |
CS: I think you’re
the only guy who says that, but it is very kind. Initially, I wanted to have a backup plan
(teaching) for when capitalism (as we know it today) finished outsourcing the
industry I work in. I went with that game plan in mind. I quickly changed my
mind and would probably work at McDonalds before trying to teach. I’d love to
do so, make no mistake, but the bullshit teachers have to put up with (bureaucracy,
etc.) is a non-starter for me. What I gained from that program was (for me and
to me) invaluable. The reading lists alone have opened up my mind (at least) to
some wonderful reading/finding new authors (and older authors that are new to
me because of the lack of reading I’d done for so long). And the people … I met
some wonderful people in the program (fellow students/writers and mentors) and
I have strong ties to that community now. Of course, the Dogfella project was an extra nice surprise, since it pays for the
degree, but that wasn’t to be expected on any level. I see lots of bad mouthing
about MFA programs in general, and what I say is this: It’s what you make of it
that matters. If you’re getting an MFA degree to become rich and famous, you’re
a putz. If you’re getting the degree to grow, you’re on the right track. I’d do
it again if I had the time. Yeah, college has become a business, and numbers
again skew the product, but let’s face it, if you’re serious about writing,
you’re going to do what you have to do anyway. My wife and I discuss the
college problem today a lot; how it has become a means to a financial end, a
job. Far too few people attend for the sake of growing, what we think it’s all
about (which is why it should be FUCKING FREE). I found the MFA program valuable
because my background was focused on politics while I was in college and then
making money on the streets. I didn’t read the kinds of books I read now. The
program introduced me to an entire new library of great writing … and the juice
to write you walk away with (after each residency) is invaluable. I wrote tons
more than usual (whether I used it or not) after each residency.
OBAAT: What made you decide to be an author?
CS: Teachers … going back to high school, although I actually
finished as a co-runner-up in a Catholic school contest when I was younger (and
nobody believed I wrote the damn thing, probably because I was one of the dumbskis).
Later on an English teacher in high school, Mrs. Miller, assigned Camus’ The Stranger and that knocked me for a
loop. Who does that, starts a book with: Mother
died today. Or, maybe, yesterday; I can't be sure. It got me thinking,
which is what we’re supposed to do, right? I started writing stuff about my
whack job family and what we were going through at the time (including my short
stint in a nuthouse) and found I enjoyed writing. Then I put everything aside
to play and prepare for football. Fortunately, a football scholarship took me
out of state (away from distractions) and I took another English course in
college and met Dave Gresham (and took more classes from him). He gave me the
confidence to pursue writing. I had ZERO encouragement other than Dave and my
Mom (but my mother would’ve been happiest had I taken safe civil service job).
Dave stuck with me through most of my very immature adulthood. He’d read my
feeble attempts to write novels but would always encourage me to keep trying.
Eventually, I got lucky, but without those teachers, forgetaboutit … I’d be in
jail or dead today. All glory to
teachers, always.
OBAAT: How do you think your life
experiences have prepared you for writing crime fiction?
CS: My MFA thesis was actually a fictional memoir of my
incredibly dysfunctional family and life experiences. I won’t even attempt to
have it published for fear that the two remaining kids who continue to speak to
me won’t if it’s published. I think I sent some of it to Patti Abbott and she
was also very encouraging for me to keep working it. I did and I have a few
drafts, but I won’t do anything with it. I did a lot of the dopey jobs I wrote
about in my early novels. I experienced a lot of what at least a few of my
characters lived through, did, etc. My family, from very early on (when I was a
kid), did some shady shit to survive, and then my old man took off and the
financial bottom dropped out … and our family life/world changed forever. As it
should, life has provided enough material for a library. Now, to get it all
down, right?
OBAAT: What do you like best about being a
writer?
CS: Pretty much everything. The research, the creation of characters and situations that leave
me wondering what if. I can get lost in this stuff, not come up for air for
hours at a time. I can’t imagine my life without it and I suspect my wife is
very accurate when she says it saved me. I know that one of my favorite parts
of the MFA program was the research paper I did on Richard Yates use of third
person omniscient … well, look at the title: Richard Yates’s Third Person Omniscient: Atmosphere, Characterization
and Judging from on High. How cool
(and exciting) is that? J
OBAAT: Who are your greatest influences?
(Not necessarily writers. Filmmakers, other artists, whoever you think has had
a major impact on your writing.)
CS: Everything and anything. Plays are what I started
writing when I finally got serious after a few failed novel attempts, so David
Mamet, for sure. Sam Shepherd also. Eugene O’Neill. Good movies can do it. A
good song can do it (Tom Waits). An overheard conversation or an imaginary one.
George V. Higgins remains my very favorite crime writer (even if it makes him
turn in his grave to be called a crime writer) … but I’d have to add David
Lynch (Blue Velvet remains my
favorite movie of all time) … Gustav Mahler’s personal story with his wife,
Alma, plays such a HUGE role in a novel I’ve been writing for several years now.
So, I reiterate: everything and anything.
OBAAT: As a writer, what’s your favorite
time management tip?
CS: I spend a lot of time at my computer (home and at work).
I’m either working on something of mine or writing for my blog or researching.
Sometimes I’ll write for six hours with little breaks. Sometimes I’ll write for
twenty minutes while watching a Netflix movie or series, constantly taking
breaks to return to writing. The next day I look over the mess I made the night
before and can focus again. At some point it takes the real work (editing), but
I really can’t say I don’t like any part of writing. I suspect individuals have
to figure out how to manage their time. I’m fortunate because my wife is a
gallivanter (what I call her) … she leaves me alone for long periods of time
while she does her things (gardening, shopping, general gallivanting. She just
left her nursing job (she’d been working two jobs for a few years now) so now
we both have four-day work weeks (the money I earn from writing, I can’t
consider work—I can’t because it’s more a pleasure than work). We both have a four-day
week, but different work days off. Monday is my most productive day because I’m
alone all day. I still get up very early when there aren’t many distractions. I
don’t do any of my political rants at 4:30 in the morning, not unless something
catches my eye while I’m having coffee. Getting up early always works well for
my production, but I write between hockey periods, sometimes during
commercials, etc. Bottom line: you make
the time.
OBAAT: If you could give a novice writer a
single piece of advice, what would it be?
CS: Read, read, read … and avoid the naysayers. I read at
least two hours every day (or I try very hard to do so). I read when I take my
two walks at work (before and during lunch). I read on the treadmill, between
weightlifting sets, when I’m stuck in traffic, walking across the parking lot
and riding the elevator when I visit Momma Stella, on the throne and when I go
to bed. Reading is essential. The writing too, that goes without saying, but
I’m not so sure one can be done without the other (for most people). As for naysayers,
ignore and avoid them like the plague. My life changed dramatically for me when
I shut out a few people who made me miserable.
OBAAT: Generally speaking the components of
a novel are story/plot, character, setting, narrative, and tone. How would you
rank these in order of their importance in your own writing, and can you add a
few sentences to tell us more about how you approach each and why you rank them
as you do?
CS: For me it’s always character first, then situation (I
guess that’s a combination of setting and plot), but plot comes last (when I
rewrite) because I generally don’t know the plot until I’m well into a novel.
Most of my novels and stories begin with a single line of dialogue, but of
course I have a setting in mind when that happens. I’ll write that scene or
just part of it. If it’s the right spark, a few months later I’ll have a novel.
Tonight at dinner my wife told me about a first-year associate lawyer at her
firm who found an error in a document someone did and told his secretary “whoever
did this should lose their job.” My wife was irate and she said, “You’re the
first person I thought of when I heard that, what you always say about people
like that. They can use a little fucking terror in their spoiled lives.” “A
shove down the subway stairs,” I said. “Yes,” she said. She’s a lot tougher
than you might think, my wife. Guess how that story will begin? Why character
is so important (for me) has to do with the actions that flow from that
character; essentially how the novel will develop because of those actions.
It’s why I can’t outline. The characters take me wherever they’re headed.
OBAAT: If you could have written any book
of the past hundred years, what would it be, and what is it about that book you
admire most?
CS: Revolutionary Road.
It’s akin to verismo opera for me.
It’s the real world (at least how Yates saw it when he wrote it, but I think it
still applies). With all the talk today of “American exceptionalism” (how I
hate that fucking phrase), Revolutionary
Road is a reality check. As if people born here have some special genetic
code to make them exceptional. As if the rest of the world is just waiting, watching,
and envying all our greatness. Revolutionary
Road bangs that nail with a jack hammer. Most of the players on the world
stage around the globe, for whatever reason, live pretty ordinary lives (Yates
used the term, “mediocre”), but we often have to have very high expectations
for ourselves. Most often, I think, we can’t adjust to life without celebrity
or greatness (or those fifteen minutes, etc.). Some never get to experience happiness,
not for long stretches anyway. I was a victim of it for a while, but not when
you might think. That was back in my street days. I liked playing a role where
I was kidding myself. I liked being able to do things for people I liked and to
people I didn’t like. It was a fugazi delusion of power (and total bullshit). Writing
allowed me to escape that and Ann Marie allowed me to give writing one last
shot. I’m a much happier person these days. I’m fine earning a living as a word
processor and writing for extra coin. The bigger money from the street nearly
ruined me. I only wish I’d read Revolutionary
Road thirty years ago, but I probably wouldn’t have understand 90% of it.
There are some wonderful lessons in that novel.
A second choice would be The
Grapes of Wrath, but that’s the socialist in me.
OBAAT: Favorite activity when you’re not
reading or writing.
CS: Wow … not sure anymore. For a time it was drumming. I’m
back into lifting weights again, but that train has left the yard (as far as
besting myself) … getting back into a semblance of decent shape has become a
priority (albeit with bumps in the road) … reading, I guess. I truly love to
read.
OBAAT: What are you working on now?
CS: A few things. A novel featuring Strat-O-Matic about a
few lawyers in a money league … the story that already started at the dinner
table … a few plays that have been started but not finished … two other literary
attempts that I return to from time to time … I’m sure there will be more by
the end of the weekend. That’s the beauty of this shit we do … there’s always
another thought that leads to a spark, and like The Boss says, “You can’t start a fire without a spark.”
Sometimes I’m
so musicalistical …