An Interview With Charlie Stella, Author of Rapino/Amato

 Charlie Stella is unique, and not just like everyone else. Charlie is much more comfortable talking about his past than I am – it’s his past, after all – but, as you’ll able to divine from his answers here, he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to organized crime. Lucky for us – and probably him as well – Charlie is a talented writer and was able to move into a straight life.

No one has been more encouraging and helpful to me as a writer than Charlie. He’s largely responsible for my first contract and, to give you an idea of what kind of friend he is, he and his lovely wife AnnMarie drove all night from New Jersey to Pittsburgh to attend my first book launch at 9:00 on a Saturday morning. (He did forget the cannoli, though.)

Ladies and gentlemen, a man I’m proud to call a friend of mine, Charlie Stella.

One Bite at a Time: Welcome back to the blog, Charlie. It’s been too long.

Your new book, Rapino/Amato, is a contemporary organized crime story, though half of it revolves around the drug trade in Montana, which is not generally thought of as a hotbed of illicit drug trafficking. What prompted you to go there?

Charlie Stella: We visited Yellowstone a few years back and stayed in a condo a lawyer friend owned in Big Sky. We landed in Bozeman where I bought a few local newspapers with articles about the influx of drug trafficking in Bozeman (Montana in general). It was significant then and more so now. I took a bit of artistic license in making it a distribution center for drugs. I started the novel while we were there during down time (when my legs and back couldn’t handle all the uphill climbing). Montana is really very gorgeous and Yellowstone magnificent. We played a few games in Montana back in college and I can still remember the snow-covered Rockies. Stunning and my kind of weather.

OBAAT: The other half of the book is set in New York and deals with a mafia that is clearly in decline, though no less ruthless in its ways. Was it harder to keep the story together, now that the mob has such frayed edges? (Not that I’d want to fool with them.)

CS: I thought I should have something mob-related since the protagonist came from that background. It is pretty funny when you think about those who flipped and what they are doing these days. They are all over the internet with their own podcasts. They argue with one another through their podcasts. One of them calls it the mob soap opera. That is a perfect description and a testament to how weak the mob has become. There are those who stood their ground and did ten, twenty, twenty-five, and/or life. Now, tell someone facing those kinds of numbers while they’re in their twenties or thirties and it takes a very strong mind (some might say stupidity) to stay the course and do the time. As long as they can allow someone to kill nineteen people (I “think” that’s the high watermark set by Gravano) to do a short bid, then get himself in trouble with drug charges, then let him out again to do a podcast … it’s even worse than pardoning the violent offenders of January 6. It is abominable, but extremely effective. The ruthlessness in the book is from desperation and a touch (or more) of paranoia. I often wonder if those kinds of pardons softened the average American for the kind of pardons we’re seeing from Presidents. Despicable, really, and something that needs to be overseen and never will be overseen.

OBAAT: You have always been a master at describing the lives of what I think of as ‘minimum wage’ mobsters, the entry-level people, knockaround guys, and wanna-bes who do a lot of the dirty work for the captains and bosses. What is it about these guys that appeals to you as a storyteller?

CS: The associates have different classifications (to my mind) and some earn quite a bit of coin, but most are involved for what little money they can make to improve their lives, pay their bills, etc. Once an associate is spoken for, their standing is more legitimized by mob standards, but there are those on the outer fringes (guys hustling football tickets, selling swag, etc.) who might be associates to “[speak] for” associates, if that makes sense. Essentially, they are guys who were not spoken for but are still earning and connected through a friend who is spoken for. I was spoken for with the stuff I did and within a few years very anxious to exit. The money allowed me to provide for three households, but the closer one gets, if he still has functioning brain cells and most importantly, other options, the quicker one will retire and either write about it or find something better to do with themselves. I met my wife at a turning point for me. Getting too close via someone else. She wasn’t going for it, so I wrote a book to impress her, found an agent, was published and I was done. Listen to me, the pay cut was serious and I’m still working today.

OBAAT: This may seem like it’s out of left field, but when I read your stuff I often think of Joseph Wanbaugh’s police procedurals. He writes about cops of varying levels of competence and character who are routinely beset by idiotic or manipulative bosses. Substitute ‘mobsters’ for ‘cops’, and your books are similar. Who are the primary influences of your writing, whether authors, TV, or movies?

CS: George V. Higgins characters across the board. He did the same thing with the Boston underworld, and nobody ever did it better. A few personal experiences occasionally sneak in my works but those are mostly comical things that to this day make me smile when I think back to them.

OBAAT: The other author who comes to mind when I read you is George V. Higgins, which most readers already know means I’m going to ask about dialog. Like Higgins, no one writes dialog that sounds more like people talking than you, and, also like Higgins, sometimes what’s important in a conversation is concealed in what may seem like two guys bullshitting. How do you go about crafting effective dialog?

CS: Your dialogue is also Higgins worthy, so never dodge that compliment. The western, Dead Shot, is masterful dialogue and from a different era. I guess (and don’t know) it has to do with listening or hearing (maybe subconsciously) the patterns of speech around us. That audio I sent you of Lefty Ruggiero and Joe Pistone (Donnie Brasco) tells you how much effort Pacino put into the Lefty role. And those are always funny when they’re not terrifying (Left vs. Gotti from prison, say). They were filming Donnie Brasco while I lived in Little Italy. Usually, I start with what is straight, normal dialogue and then reread it as the character should sound. Rewriting is much of the deal.

OBAAT: Your attitude toward federal law enforcement agencies can safely be described as less than charitable. Leaving aside whatever is going on in Washington as we’re talking today, what would you change about how the feds go about their business, notably as it concerns organized crime?

CS: I read a book about the Dulles brothers last year. Their influence continues to shape our insane foreign policy on both sides of the political aisle to this day (regime changes, overt or clandestine). What the Dulles boys did around the globe makes going after drug runners pale by comparison. It’s the old power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, thing. It’s very hard, I think, to change that when a badge on any level holds so much power. Cops are no different than any mob. They stick together, have fragile egos, are very patriotic (believe it or not), and sometimes that combination leads to stupid shit. It has to be the hardest job in the world to remain clean and not yield to peer pressure, and just like the mob, when they get in trouble, the backflip is usually fast. I don’t know how to change what comes natural to people in general, especially in local law enforcement, but at the CIA/FBI/SS level, it might not be a bad idea to have term limits on their careers. The Secret Service clowns in the car with President Bozo on January 6, 2020, the lying that ensued still sticks in my craw.

OBAAT: Just when a lot of people think the vein of stories about Italian organized crime has been tapped out, you come up with a new angle, as in Rapino/Amato. Knowing you as well as I do, I see no reason this will stop. What are you working on now?

CS: A novel about a young woman who decides to enter a life of pornography. The research has been fascinating (not watching porn videos but reading and listening to interviews with the male and female talent, producers, et al), learning how they get into the business, the struggle it actually is, and that some of the stars literally went into it after careers as nurses, real estate agents, a military sergeant, etc., but for the new kids on the block, it appears to be very competitive and that’s what the new book (without a title, which is an anomaly for me) is about. The lowest of the low associates are involved until a critical point and then a made guy steps into it. Stark House has another book they bought of mine that isn’t mob related. That one, Raskin’s World, is about lawyers having affairs and ending with a tragic event. We moved it back because Rapino-Amato is a sequel to Joey Piss Pot. The last two years have been my most productive ever. I really can’t wait to retire like you but being so much younger, I’ll have to wait another six or seven months. (Editor’s Note: I am 137 days older than Master Stella.) Thanks for this, as always.

PS: Rapino/Amato releases today, April 4.)